#1 2017-06-15 13:12:25

Azgoth
Member
Registered: 2017-05-08
Posts: 33

Changes

This is a part of my message about the balance, and the changes that are taking place in Titan Brawl.
I paste it from the chat.


"Forgive that I don't want to translate it, but it is what Saekh wrote: forum and facebook are dead. We talk on a private chat, where discussions on such global topics reach literally a few people.

When you are writing about the problems of high lvl players, you skip what I previously wrote.
If I wanted to make the game better for me, I would not talk to you at all. I would not make any comments, and the problems that I see I would use to gain them.
It is much simpler, more pleasant and less time consuming.
Second, I know I'm not a god. I make mistakes like everyone else and I do not run away from it. See how long I have not spoken about balance and other topics that have a big impact on the game. I avoid topics where I can harm. I try to speak only when I can very likely help.

As I wrote, I was also a beginner player and I did not forget how it was.

The most important problems with Titan Brawl what I had then was:
1. Lags
2. LAGS
3. Lags
It was a problem that almost forced me to leave the game.
You still did not solve it. I do not report again, because what for?  I promised that I will record a game with lags, but for now I did not find a good recording program to do so. I once wrote about my suspicions about friends list.  There was a time when half of the top alliance players knew that to reduce the lag is enough to reduce the friends list. I wrote you about it, but you did not check it.
You are right, although the players see something difference. You will still have it when all the players leave. I changed the device to be more efficient than most of the others. I regularly reinstall and restart the application. It's better but still not as it should look.
Second question; practically no one else does it. It should not really be necessary to good work.

2. The second point is the lack of  possibility communication between players.
Game just doesn't offer it.
You can get used to, but it's not cool.

3. Not fixed errors.
I'm aware that errors happen.
But if for 3 weeks we see the same error, reported a hundred times already, it is a nuisance.
I'm aware that errors happen.

I have listed ALL the problems I had with Titan Brawl in the beginning of the game.
Note that none of them has been resolved. For over half a year.
Lags and all forms of crash game are by far the most important.

Now a bit about current politics and myths.

1. I have never had a problem that I'm losing against players with higher lvl. Never.
Just a beginner player feels it differently.
I was glad that I'm going up the rankings, that I entered the top 1000 and so on.
I played and I was getting higher. So i was glad.
Ask about this issue of any other player.
You will hear the same.

2. In my opinion the old ranking was much better.
Much longer remained in the badge part, with no points.
This part was very pleasant, easy to climb up.
2 stars for victory + totem, one for victory, minus one for failure.
Perfect for beginners. Simple system with great prizes.
Not direct comparison with top players.
The loss of the few badges at the end of the season gave the opportunity to do it again.
I would take those badges twice more at the end of the season.
It's funny to climb up.

The current system discourages to play.
Note that most of the players are around 2000 points.
Two weeks after starting the game, when we are using our mind it's posible to have 2 000 points.
And further play no longer makes sense.
Players are not able to go higher. At the end of the season they lose nothing.
So they are standing at around 2,000 points all the time.
It's very discouraging.

Ranking narrowed to about 50-70 players also takes the ability to track progress.
Top 1000 is not bad, I was glad when I got there; p

3. Long many units remain locked.
For me it never was a problem. Really.
Yes, sometimes I preferred to have that or that unit, but it didn't deter me from playing, more encouraged me to buy.
Units are five during the game.
Totems and titan are the most important.
Single champion (If he is not so completely unbalanced as Gurb was recently. 84dps 893hp it's 75012; more than titan has) is not able to change the game very much.

If you think it is a problem you can do it like this:
1) Enter currency to unlock units.
Something like purple coins in Boss Raid.
Let everyone unlock what they want.
Good players (I'm not talking about lvl, but about skills) They have no problem with lack of units. Weak have problem.
That is why this currency should be easy to get but time consuming.
Giving weaker players the chance to gain a little advantage provided they play more.
Peoples like to farm. In fact, it would not give it any advantage, only a larger selection of available units.
I think the use of current purple coins for this purpose is a bad idea. They have different destinies and are not getting individually.
These new coins could even be awarded in a small amount for each ranking match, just like experience.
Or for winning new in campaigns, where we are playing against bots.
It would be easy to add for you and make sense.

or/and:

2) The player has the ability to choose what kind of tokens he will get. Which of the elite units, which of the rare, which of the common.
And he get what he want. In a situation where something is random, people usually feel wronged.

4. In my opinion, the emoticons available during the fight at the end of last year were far better than the current ones.
You tried to remove any negative emotions, but it was fun.
Really Titan Brawl lost a lot for me after changing this little thing.

5. You wrote that I assert that you listen more to the voice of new players than the old ones.
Not what I meant.
Your current policy focuses on giving equal opportunities.
You are afraid that weak players will leave because of big differences.
In this way, you destroy all forms of activity, the creativity of your willingness to pay for the game.
You do everything to keep near the to the top, the gray player, devoted to Titan Brawl 10 minutes per day.
This way you will not only push away old players from the game, also you destroy willingness to develop from "middle" players.

I mean here:
-Your hard efforts to prevent the purchase of units for clans by top players (You can't call it otherwise; upgrade one exclusive unit on a example lvl takes more time than upgrade 35 n ormal units to the same level)
-You gave all players, all units on level 9 for free (Funny progression of tokens needed for upgrading)
-There is no level 11 or any other possibility to using our boxes (I will tell you as a curiosity that I long thought that Titan Brawl has no character level limit wink )
-"Equal" chances in the tournament. I do not insist on my opinion that this is a mistake;  I might be wrong. But I know on myself example, that as a weak beginning player I liked to play against stronger players, although I didn't have a chance. I saw then what I can achieve and I could learn something.
To make the chances "equal" I would reduce the difference in the reward between places.
Example:
1 place: 10
2 place: 9
3 place: 8
the rest: 6-7
Top players want badges, weak want profit.
The opportunity to play against the top is fun for new players. I write from my own experience.
Don't forget that a player who plays a week can meet in tournament one that plays two days. Then he will have an advantage"

Last edited by Azgoth (2017-06-18 17:06:46)


5 times solo season winner
2 times second place
The best player ever.

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#2 2017-06-20 12:30:12

Elias
Moderator
Registered: 2017-06-06
Posts: 23

Re: Changes

Julia will be out for 1 week, I’ll try to do my best to clarify everything smile

1. Lags
2. LAGS
3. Lags

With Lag you mean slow performance / Frame rate, or smoth performance with slow server responses creating visual corrections like extrange movements on heroes?



2. The second point is the lack of  possibility communication between players.

I’m not sure what do you mean, is about the way you perceive your opponent's moves? Or more about the chat?


3. Not fixed errors.

Well, we can not fix all the errors at the same time and even the ones we fix, takes time.
We work on sprint's base around 2-3 weeks of development to fix all we can, then takes almost 1 more week to test it and publish the update, sometimes on the test we identify new problems and we have delay the update. That means, a fix can take 1 month to be visible for players, and if we are lucky and the bug is reported at the end of the development then will take 2 weeks, but hardly ever will take less.


2. In my opinion the old ranking was much better.

We had big problems with the flat rate system, we underestimate top players and some of them broke it by playing 300 battles a day,  the only way to keep that system was to put a limit on the amount of ranked battles per day (around 10) but that choice would be even worse that.

I think the big problem, is, that the ranking is perceived as a progress, but actually the rank is a positioning according to your skills/level, you should only progress on rank when you really improved as player, and this is not happening constantly, once you reach your position, you mostly fight to stay there, and eventually you will progress learning new strategies or leveling up heroes. This is something we may not explain properly on the game.





2) The player has the ability to choose what kind of tokens he will get

Not allowing players to just take the tokens that they want is part of the core of the game, otherwise you would just play always with same 5 units, becomes boring,( and yes, now we have a little bit if this, and that’s one of the reasons we are working on a full rebalance).  Talking specifically about unlocking, we try to keep a balance, we do not give all units from the beginning to do not overwhelm players (some units are complex to use) and also give some progression feeling and motivation to keep playing. Adding some mechanics to be able to change that unlock order wouldn’t affect too much, is something we could consider.



4. In my opinion, the emoticons available during the fight at the end of last year were far better than the current ones.
You tried to remove any negative emotions, but it was fun.

Probably was fun for the winners, smile
Now seriously, we had a lot of reports about feeling insulted, for us was also something innocent, but there are players from all around the world, with different cultures and something funny for us can be very offensive for others.

Feelings apart, we have on the backlog, an update for the chat emoticons, using your totem face instead of the standard yellow face, and also being able to unlock new expressions to customize you “emoticons deck”, but for now we still have a lot of work with stability :S



5. You wrote that I assert that you listen more to the voice of new players than the old ones.

I’m not 100% sure what do you mean on this point.

The decision to play tournaments with MAX leveled units, is to give same chances to all players, (even the new ones will have less units to choose).

Keep in mind Tournaments will be a limited event and will not replace the ranking.

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#3 2017-06-23 20:18:33

Azgoth
Member
Registered: 2017-05-08
Posts: 33

Re: Changes

Forgive me that I did not write long. I was thinking about ranking changes. Effects below.

Old problems

1. Lags

When I write lag I mean no response from the game on the press.

Sometimes i put unit SM and nothing happen.
Sometimes I mark units, put lane and nothing happen.
I see fingerprint (something like waves) but the unit is not sent.

Linkwr recorded one of my battles and put link on our discord. You can watch this. In 1:30 my opponent used his Maya SM.
I was waitng for that and i tried to use my Fristor SM.
I needed 4 seconds to do this.
She put 80% of her attack into my totem before my Fristor frozen her.
Counting my reaction time and Fristor move time it should be 0,5, max 1 sec. Not 4.

2. Communitation

I mean, if you want to talk with another player you just can't do that.
You can only communicate with 29 members of your clan. With the other players can't.
It's strange for me.
This is the reason for which I recently started to post comments / suggestions by forum not on discord.
To encourage other players to use the forum and give them the opportunity to communicate.
As you can see it work smile

3. Not fixed errors

How long Aisha has invisible attack?
5 months? 6?
You still didn't fix it.
It's too long.

I recorded it today (sory for the quality):
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-iFkF … sp=sharing

I can list more "eternal" bugs.

New problems

2. In my opinion the old ranking was much better.

"I think the big problem, is, that the ranking is perceived as a progress, but actually the rank is a positioning according to your skills/level, you should only progress on rank when you really improved as player, and this is not happening constantly, once you reach your position, you mostly fight to stay there, and eventually you will progress learning new strategies or leveling up heroes."

Very well said.
High rank players understand it, but others don't understand.

In my opinon it's one of the most important problems in game.
It seams to me that currently system is bad.
Like i said most peoples stay near to 2 000 points.
They are afraid to play to not lose points. It is stressful and disingenuous to the game for them.

I understand your idea to make leaderbord available only for 50 top players. But low rank players still have points and are afraid to lose them.

We have 3 main problems:

1) Fear of losing points. If we want to play we can lose points and it discourages. If we have made a good ranking, it's just stupid to keep playing.
2) The game gives nothing. Low rank player will win 6 times, lose 4, draw once and have the same score what he had. He gain absolutely nothing. So for what did he play?
3) The game pays off only in the last days of the season. This is when the ranking is decided.

I was thinking about changing the scoring system completely. It is difficult to combine the above 3 issues together. Any attempt to base a ranking on a previous season ranking doesn't make sense. It's too easy to cheat.

Intentionally finish one season low to make the next easier. Adding extra points for your opponent's lvl seemed pretty interesting, but in fact, it would really reward players who do not pay for the game. Any attempt to flatten the scoring system just reward active players.

Finally, I came to the conclusion that the scoring system is very beneficial for the lower ranked players and allow to win the best player.
It's good.

However, I have some suggestions for changes:

change 1.
Possibility to choose: we want play ranked or not.
Remove button "play online" and add two buttons in this place: "play rank" and "play no rank". Opponents to both game modes are selected from all currently available.
Doesn't matter your opponent play rank or not. In this way it's possible when one of opponents play rank and second no rank.  Only this who play rank can gain or lost points. The second one no risk.

Earlier i tought about add no rank button and make it most popular game mode. Previously I was thinking of adding a no-rank fight button and making it the most popular game mode. For example, for introducing small fees for ranking battle. Rank players will play agains rank players and casual against casual. But it's bad idea.
When most players will play no-rank it will be very hard to find opponent to rank fight.

Currently casual mode is useless - nobody want to play against bot.
Challange a friend is very time consuming and unconfortable.

Therefore, ranking and non-ranking players should be drawn from the same basket.
Most of the players would play no-rank without the risk of losing points, but against the people.
It is important to make both modes of play equal.
Name of current casual fight change to bot fight.
This idea is the answer to the point. 1)

I find it has many advantages and one disadvantage: cheaters
You can challenge a fellow outside the alliance. Reject challenge, then immediately one press "no rank" second "rank".
One surrenders without losing, second ones get points.
That is why it would be best to block, for example for 10mins possibility to draw in a fight someone whom we have challenged / who chellenged us.
The fights between allies are already blocked. Block the possibility of changing alliance more than once a day.

Surely it is embarrassing and it should be refined. Not counting cheaters this would make it possible to freely fight unranked between random players

change 2.
Old skull boxes encouraged players to play. Add them again. These were minor symbolic awards. For at least 15 skulls for example one elite token. While we need 300 to raise from 9 to 10 lvl. And units are 40.
However, most players don't count it and it's always better to get less than nothing. In a situation where after 10 games we still stand in the same place in the ranking we would have at least a few tokens in our pockets.
It would also make more sense to fight unranked, I mentioned in point change 1. Currently for casual and challenge we don't get absolutely nothing.

change 3.
This idea at first seemed to me pretty crazy, but the longer I think about it, the more I like it.
Shortening the duration of the season, will promote more active players. Elongation will not change anything.
Divide the season into parts for example per one day and giving points for them also doesn't make sense.

And what if we make a ranking that never ends?
Of course, the "season" will continue for 2 weeks.
After this time we will get prizes etc, but we will not lose points.

Such a change would make real what Elias wrote above
The player would have his ranking points and he would be able to play no rank.
Just in every possible moment of the season we will be able to influence his ranking. Also on the first day. But we will not be forced to do so.
He would not be forced to climb again every 2 weeks. He would know that he has his ranking and if he feels good he might try to climb, but he doesn't have to.
Initially, it may seem that this is a better bet for top players. Wrong.
This change didn't increase the distance to top players.
For example at the end of last season I gained 1.8 points on average for winning the fight. Of course ca -30 for defeat.
In this system, exceeding 3,000 points is very difficult and 3 200 practically impossible.
After the change the ranking will be more stable. The truth is that at the end of the season it is always very similar. Unless one of the players does not want to climb again and give up.
To prevent complete avoidance of ranking battles, a player from leaderboard would be obliged to at least 1 per week. If he doesn'tdo this he loses 250 points.
I think that would not be needed the truth is that everyone always wants to be higher. I think the top players would still play for points. It's just a security.
To prevent stagnation I would subtracts to each from the leadrboard 50 points per week. It's enough. 50 is a lot. No less no more.
It would not be needed at all if not for unbalanced units. Thanks to Gurb it was possible to get about 3,200 points before the nerf. With balanced units 3 200 is impossible.
Of course this point will work better in conjunction with the two previous ones. Where ranking battles will become a rarity, the most popular will be no-rank against other players.

5. I didn't mean tournaments.
As I wrote at the beginning my previous post it's only part of  converstion.
You can wrote all in AS discord in clan_meeting_room. It starts 14.06.
It was just answer on this:
"I really do not understand why do you think we talk more with the newcomers, and where do you see that.  "

Last edited by Azgoth (2017-06-23 20:20:07)


5 times solo season winner
2 times second place
The best player ever.

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#4 2017-06-23 22:58:35

jmil
Member
Registered: 2017-06-16
Posts: 8

Re: Changes

The current system could work if it would be changed a little.

At the moment it is just stressfull and discouraging to play for people who are trying to lvl their champs to be competitive. And that is the majority of people.

The system would be way better if you get the rewards when you reach the different league ranks like it was before. Then you are free of the weight of losing all the rewards that you worked so hard to get and could try to reach the next lvl without much to lose.

And just give rewards at the end of the season for a rank in the top 10. Top people would fight anyway just for the fun of it or bragging rights, but giving them a bit more to fight for is never wrong. And it would motivate more people to try and get into the top 10.

Oh and the skull boxes. I think it would be way better if it was just one box that accumulates skulls all day long (from 0:00 to 23:59) and gives rewards based on the amount of skulls you collected this day. This way people who play a lot would get better rewards and other people would be motivated to play more too.
At the moment it's like: oh, I need to do 4 to 8 matches to get my skullboxes. Ok, done and done for the day, no need to play more...

And I too always thought that something like a 50 point subtraction if you don't play ranked for a week would be useful. Especially if you gave us an unranked mode. The training mode right now is not really useful or fun.

Oh and btw: who is ERTY? Changed from wood to Elite I with just one tournament and some training mode matches and is in the top50? One of your devs or a bot? You should remove him from the leaderboard. Takes the space of a real player...

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#5 2017-06-24 13:35:16

Elias
Moderator
Registered: 2017-06-06
Posts: 23

Re: Changes

Hi Azgoth smile


1. Lags

I see now what do you mean, isn’t even any of the 2 possibilities I though.



2. Communitation

This is something we evaluate and we were afraid of the “bad behaviours” with direct messages, one option we considerer was a global chat, but looking in how it works in other games we didn’t see to much benefit.

But you are right, if we want the game to be truly social we should improve the communication to avoid things like quit and enter to another clan just to talk for 5m and then go back to your clan.



3. Not fixed errors

We definitely need to improve how we collect and organize the bug reporting, now there is a lot of different channels with reports (discord, helpshift, emails, forum, facebook) and some things can be “lost” and never get to devs at all.


2. In my opinion the old ranking was much better.

Your proposal of recover the “casual fights” as a main game mode doesn't sounds bad, as long as we can handle “negative behaviours”, when we had this mode available for long time and we end up removing it because of that.
I totally agree that even rank and casual  are separate modes, they should be on the same match, the only possible negative is the rank fights will have a high % of good luck, getting a causal player “testing” will be easier to defeat than getting another rank focused on winning.


change 2. Old skull boxes

We have to add a limit on the rewards you can get from battle, or to the amount of battles you can play getting rewards (now depend on the skulls) we can iterate on the balance (2 skull boxes/day instead of 3) to allow more battles with rewards. Each time we left something without any kind of limit, players exceeded our expectation braking the system ( playing 300 battles in 24h, creating 5 accounts to support 1… ). 



change 3.  (leaderboard)

Is a quite interesting proposal to not reset the leaderboard, force to play at less one battle to stay, and remove just some few medals, but to make it work, we need to put a limit, as I mentioned before, may be a limit of rank battles (5) you can play per day, otherwise, the player who reach 3200 (means he got 1200 in 2 weeks), will just lose 50, in 2 seasons will be at 4400, in 4 seasons 8800, getting totally out of the matchmaking and impossible to be reached by other players.
With the limit per day we could assure all players have same chances to climb up.

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#6 2017-06-26 20:10:42

Azgoth
Member
Registered: 2017-05-08
Posts: 33

Re: Changes

1. Lags

Watch this carefully:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-iFkF … sp=sharing
I:
-send Fristor
-use his SM
-send Gurb
-mark Fristor
-put his SM (1.35 / 1.34 game time. Not work!)
-send Drok
-use Fristor SM again (work)

In 30 minutes game time I had two similar video.
I had video when i mark my unit, chose line and nothing happen but I accidentally deleted it.
Nothing lost. I could easily record another, just for what?


2. Comunication

I once suggested adding communication between clans. Leader could send a message to another clan.
It would be displayed in the normal chat window and marked with another color.
Leader could pass what other players have to say. Of course, the clan to which the message is addressed should be able to close such communication.
This option should be available only for the leader. Making it available to co-leaders could cause 29 co-leaders in clan and spam.

This is one option that I reported a long time ago.
The second is the addition of global chat available only to clan leaders.

3. First change about rank.

I'm not sure I understand you well. You wrote that in the past, casual and rank players played against each other? But have you eliminated this possibility due to negative behaviors?

4. Third change about rank.

You haven't read my previous post.
"This change didn't increase the distance to top players.
For example at the end of last season I gained 1.8 points on average for winning the fight. Of course ca -30 for defeat.
In this system, exceeding 3,000 points is very difficult and 3 200 practically impossible."
In current system you can play ten years without reset and you will not reach 4000 points.
There is a common pool of points to split between players. It can't suddenly enlarge.
Points of the best player are dependent on the rest of the players points.
Of course new players are adding new points. Average players receive them. And top players can take it.
But it's a slow process.
Secondly: The more points other players have, the easier it is to earn points.
I think that subtracting 50 points a week would keep the ranking in place.
Of course, this would have to be checked and optimized in practice.


5 times solo season winner
2 times second place
The best player ever.

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#7 2017-06-27 08:21:41

Hurdaci
Member
From: Bronx
Registered: 2017-04-20
Posts: 65
Website

Re: Changes

Subtracting 50 points every week? Are you kidding? Some players try really hard to gain back  those points which you steal from them to inflate your ego. Stop stealing points using Gurb, suggesting senseless things and consider quitting the game if you wanna contribute to this game.

Last edited by Hurdaci (2017-06-27 08:29:30)


Sad that I will be missing this game reach E-Sports level.

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